The BMW N20 sucks and here's why

"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw) 02/19/2016 at 19:52 • Filed to: N20

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This is a 63,000 mile, dealer-serviced 2012 528i. It’s suffered failed timing chain guides and a completely worn out crank gear. And BMW doesn’t care. This is similar to what the R56 Mini Coopers do to their chain guides, by the way.

Our conversations with the local dealers indicate that they’re putting new engines in these cars left and right, but we’ve been stuck with an extended warranty company trying to resurrect this one. It’s the first one we’ve seen, but it’s sure to be one of many moving forward so we’ve bought all the necessary special tools.

4 year old BMWs! New engines! Why do people accept this shit? I’ve said it before, this is why I believe BMW has lost its way. People bitch about the model lineup, but things like this are the real problem.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:02

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I remember a video involving an X5 water pump (plastic and electric) failing at 60k miles, and a commenter who owned a 335i said he thought 60k miles as acceptable duration for such an item. These are very low expectations.

RallyWrench > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/19/2016 at 20:05

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Did one of those today on a 325. They all fail, every single one of them, and it’s $1000 . Most make it between 60-100k, but still I think it’s pretty ridiculous to accept such failures. The new normal is bullshit.

iSureWilll > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:07

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Would this have anything to do with the factory recommended 15,000 mile oil change intervals?

RallyWrench > iSureWilll 02/19/2016 at 20:10

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As much as I disagree with such intervals, having taken valve covers off 100k mile cars so maintained and found them sludged beyond recognition, I can’t draw a line between that and this. Maybe the crank gear wear.

CaptDale - is secretly British > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:25

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Same reason people except replacement shortblocks in their brand new Subarus. Talk about a freaking mess. Only the N/A 4cyls though.

whoarder is tellurium > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:27

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But... but I thought BMW were teh best evAr!!

That is a seriously shitty and flawed design to have eaten itself alive at such low mileage.

How did BMW not see this in powertrain development? Maybe it was a last minute supplier change... maybe it is the supplier’s fault.. yeah that is it.

/sarcasmatron

iSureWilll > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:28

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It would be a stretch I know. I'm thinking the chains aren't lubricated properly and cause more wear on the gears and guides.

RallyWrench > whoarder is tellurium 02/19/2016 at 20:32

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Or maybe... (looks suspiciously left and right)... they just don’t give a shit, because they’re now a marketing company that builds fashion accessories.

Nick Has an Exocet > iSureWilll 02/19/2016 at 20:45

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I see what you did there. Way to link your words together.

E92M3 > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:46

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It’s almost like they don’t do any long term testing. They have a lot of common failures across their lineup. Usually it’s something plastic, that breaks. Electric water pumps that fail before 60k miles. Fuel pumps, throttle acutators. They don’t recall things that should be recalled, nor do they goodwill for those just out of warranty anymore. A lot of times they don’t even update the freaking part so your stuck with the same flawed part to fail again someday.

Matt Nichelson > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 20:53

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I love, love, love my BMW, but there’s no denying this is not a good look at all. It’s infuriating and a damn shame.

RallyWrench > E92M3 02/19/2016 at 20:53

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Exactly. This is the kind of thing that makes me think they had to experience this in testing, and made a decision not to improve it. Unless they test on accumulated mileage across a large number of cars, and don’t rack a ton up on individual cars, I don’t see how they could miss it.

RallyWrench > Matt Nichelson 02/19/2016 at 20:55

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I’m a lifelong BMW enthusiast and owner myself, so I hate to see this stuff. I tell clients to get rid of them after 80k miles. They’re nice to that point, but they’ll consume the car’s value in repair costs shortly thereafter.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > CaptDale - is secretly British 02/19/2016 at 20:55

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My 2014 Forester has been drinking a quart of 0w-20 synthetic every 3,000 miles. A short block replacement is in my immediate future. At least Subaru seems to be doing the right thing and both replacing them free of charge and trying to fix the design.

E92M3 > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 21:01

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I’d rather have an old school belt driven metal water pump, and have the parasitic drag.

96Formula6spd > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 22:08

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And this is why I won’t own anything else german ever again. I have had friends newer BMW. Lets just say the enjoyed the owenership till they saw the repair bills on the warranty work. $3500 cooling system overalls. Expensive $600 fuel pumps. They all say the same thing and have done the same thing. Its good till the warranty is up then sell sell sell like its the black plague.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 22:10

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That’s insane. Thanks for making me glad I drive an econobox Honda.

Spasoje > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 22:15

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Any idea if this tends to be limited to non-M cars (i.e. volume models)? Or can one expect this crap from anything w/ a BMW badge on it now?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 22:34

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Agreed. They seem to be garbage after E38/39/46 for the most part.

DipodomysDeserti > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 02/19/2016 at 22:43

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Except that people have been complaining about their Subaru engines eating oil (and transmissions and head gaskets) for about ten years now. There were tons of oil consumption issues with the EJ engines. This coming from a Subaru and BMW owner.

DipodomysDeserti > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 22:46

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So my CPO warranty is probably going to do me some good then? I’m still under the factory warranty and so far the N20 has been much more reliably than the M57? in my 335d. I just got the pads and rotors replaced for free under the original owners maintenance plan which was nice. I change my own oil in between the free dealer changes just to be safe. What really bothers me about the N20 is the piston slap when the engine is cold. Reminds me of my ‘83 325e in that they're gas engines that sound like diesels.

Cash Rewards > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 23:00

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They was a good article in road & track (or motor trend, maybe?) about how the BMW turbo engines fail early in real world use because the engineers assume some level of hard driving during break in that soccer moms just aren’t doing, the engines aren’t breaking in properly, and they fail prematurely because of it.

RallyWrench > BaconSandwich is tasty. 02/19/2016 at 23:12

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Any time. Hell, I'm glad you drive an econobox Honda so you don't have to suffer with this shit.

RallyWrench > Spasoje 02/19/2016 at 23:23

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I’d expect it from all of them. The S85 V10 in the E60 M5 is a piece of shit, and the N62 turbo on which the new M V8s were based is a total disaster too, so the M badge isn't immune. They run hard until they don't.

RallyWrench > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/19/2016 at 23:26

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This, exactly. BMW stopped being an engineering company that built cars to a marketing company that builds cars sometime in the early 2000's.

RallyWrench > DipodomysDeserti 02/19/2016 at 23:32

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That warranty will pay for itself. I haven't personally seen anything more than injector failures and carbon buildup in M57s, but have heard of other issues. For what it's worth, I believe your proactive service schedule will help.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > E92M3 02/19/2016 at 23:33

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They don’t recall things that should be recalled

Cough S65 Rod bearings Cough

RallyWrench > Cash Rewards 02/19/2016 at 23:39

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I'm glad it's being covered in mainstream automotive publications, because it's a real problem. That said, I don't think any kind of break-in procedure would make a difference here. The break-in issue can lead to excessive oil consumption, ring issues, and other concerns, but as I see it this is a design and/or parts problem.

DipodomysDeserti > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 23:45

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Basically every carbon build up related issue that possible to have on the M57 showed up on my 335d, and it only had 30k miles on it. It was also a CPO so everything was covered. Then the oil seal blew on the small turbo. I don’t think I really even paid any extra for the CPO on my car with the N20 as I got it used with less than 30k miles on it. My local dealer CPO’s all of their low mileage cars. I only paid $23k for the car and it is optioned out. I took it on 6k mile road trip this summer and it did great so I was hoping I lucked out and got a relatively reliable newer BMW. Time will tell I guess.

AM3R shamefully returns > Spasoje 02/19/2016 at 23:51

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The S65 in the E9x M3 is a fantastic engine, rod bearings aside (I know I know). Very stout and reliable (once again, besides the rod bearings). The only major downside (beside rod bearings) is the abysmal fuel economy.

AM3R shamefully returns > RallyWrench 02/19/2016 at 23:52

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Bring back the N52!!! This is just embarrassing.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/20/2016 at 00:05

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I agree. I actually really like the e38/e39/e46 and would love to own one. Anything after those cars though...

Spasoje > RallyWrench 02/20/2016 at 00:39

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Craaaaap.

I’ve been set on an M4 (with literally no options save for full leather) for a while now as a long-term keeper. The finances should align just as buzz dies down and good deals can be made...

On the forums, people seem very satisfied so far, but the car’s only been out for a year and a bit. My line of thinking was if I buy it new, I can make sure it’s properly taken care of (as I’ve done with my current MkIV Jetta, which has actually been reliable all this time).

But if even top-notch maintenance can’t help, maybe I should jump ship and get a GT350... Any red flags w/ the F8x in particular?

Spasoje > AM3R shamefully returns 02/20/2016 at 00:39

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Any word on the S55?

Chasaboo > RallyWrench 02/20/2016 at 00:53

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About 4 years ago, everyone at work with a decent salary had a BMW. Now, they’ve all gotten rid of them, too many repairs. The most popular cars are now Audi.

AM3R shamefully returns > Spasoje 02/20/2016 at 01:30

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S55 is developed from the N55 I believe, which is a more reliable iteration of the N54. Cooling system is “eh” if you’ll heavily be tracking IIRC but that’s nothing a few mods can’t fix. The N55 is a decent engine, has been used in pretty much every BMW model starting around 2010-2011. They are pretty decent motors, and I’m assuming the S55 will be as well. The problem is, people get a 335i with an n54/n55, mod the shit out of it, run 22psi and then after 15k of beating it the turbo will fail or something like that. If you want to keep it long term, if you keep it stock i’m fairly sure it'll be a decently reliable engine.

Spasoje > AM3R shamefully returns 02/20/2016 at 01:41

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Would definitely be keeping it stock. I resisted modding my mkIV 1.8T Jetta (and strictly fuel it with 94 ethanol-free octane) and it still runs like a top hehe

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 02/20/2016 at 01:48

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Yeah, same here. I’ve definitely considered buying a few of each of those in the past.

AM3R shamefully returns > Spasoje 02/20/2016 at 09:28

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I’d count on the engine to be fairly reliable then. Do you like E9x M3's? They've really proved to be reliable engines. The chassis doesn't have any major problems either, even the DCT. I hope the F80 M is just as reliable.

E92M3 > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 02/20/2016 at 10:18

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cough S54 Vanos Hubs cough

CaptDale - is secretly British > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 02/20/2016 at 11:07

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Yes, I am happy they are doing right by their customers.

Spasoje > AM3R shamefully returns 02/20/2016 at 14:56

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I do like the E9x – but I’m set on having a brand new M!

Brian Silvestro > RallyWrench 02/20/2016 at 19:15

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Can confirm, was driving a 328d with 20k on the clock and threw a check engine light at the end of the day, turned out to be an injector. These motors are not meant to last very long it seems.

AM3R shamefully returns > Spasoje 02/20/2016 at 23:11

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I don't blame you, especially if you wanna do euro delivery!

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti 02/23/2016 at 00:10

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Wait you own a Subaru AND a BMW diesel? I’d imagine you also own a lot of Tylonol.

DipodomysDeserti > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 02/23/2016 at 00:30

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I've sold off all my subies, and the diesel is now gone as well. Now I'm down to a BMW, a FIAT, and an old GMC. Lots of Tylenol ; ) Surprisingly the BMW and Abarth have been trouble free so far.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti 02/23/2016 at 00:46

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God I want an Abarth so bad. Couldn't convince my wife that it was big enough and myself that it would be reliable enough. But if they are somewhat trouble free... Well maybe when I get one of the Subarus paid off in a year or two. Every time I see one in traffic and hear the exhaust I smile.

DipodomysDeserti > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 02/23/2016 at 05:31

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It’s a fun little car. Buy a used one that’s still under warranty As they have terrible resale value. Mine only has 20k miles on it and the kbb value is like $10k.

OneFourThree > RallyWrench 01/16/2018 at 11:43

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High output 2 liter turbo guys have known for years the cheapest insurance is very frequent oil changes. The plastic chain guide in ultra dark brown is a dead giveaway of change intervals too far apart.

Tommy boy has a quote relevant to your warranty.